Remove "Ammunition" from Staffs, Make them discoverable/Skills

589 votes

I suggest the option of removing spells from being an "Ammunition" Then making them into a discoverable spell, like a skill. You dont need ammunition of the spell it self already has limitations from mana. And the limitations from using the spells as much as you'd like hinders the user from enjoying a spell to its fullest. In my opinion, It's much harder to like the mage and wizard builds, when the spell im using run out shortly after using them.

Open suggestion Balance change Suggested by: Celestial (24 Jan) • Upvoted: 14 May • Comments: 33

Comments: 33

25 Jan
D4KiR
yes currently magestaff feels like an "elemental BOW"
25
25 Jan
Metodi Minchev
I agree completely!
13
25 Jan
MootGuru Merged
Currently, when you use magic you have to use charges that are either found or crafted, as well as a portion of your Mana pool. I find both to be silly. I feel an element should be tied to the staff and when used, uses Mana to cast. It could also work well if the current system still existed, but the magic was a spell book/scroll instead of charges, so you could still use a single staff and just flip through the different spells you kept in hour inventory without using them up. Having both feels like we're just archers with different ammunition.
18
25 Jan
Sarah Merged
I don't really Know How To put it beyond that but the magic system being ammo based feels really weird and awkward especially since it still has, mana. Just... removing the spells being consumable would make it feel less odd but i understand there may be a reason for it i haven't understood.
12
26 Jan
SengueDreams
A guy i know stated it felt like they didn't know what system they wanted to go with, but treating Healing, fire, ice magics like arrows is a bit redundant if you also have a mana system in place. Either make it ammunition, or...a mana based deal, the magic should just be part of the skill tree when it comes to spells, or at least let them be discoverable items that are permentaly unlocked once discovered for the character,
15
26 Jan
Menos
If you play with the infinite ice spell you immediately learn that the system is pretty balanced, even without requiring ammunition for staves. So why this is implemented this way is beyond me. It discourages usage of big spells, and frankly the cost of them is ridiculous compared to the free wand.
8
26 Jan
Tigerlilium Admin
"Staves to be mana based only, instead of Ammo and Mana based." (suggested by <Hidden> on 2024-01-25), including upvotes (1) and comments (0), was merged into this suggestion.
11
26 Jan
Tigerlilium Admin
"Magic having "ammo" feels awkward" (suggested by <Hidden> on 2024-01-25), including upvotes (1) and comments (0), was merged into this suggestion.
9
26 Jan
Metodi Minchev
There are already Eternal versions of spells that are infinite and can't run out of charges.
24
26 Jan
Neo
I´m strongly agree
1
26 Jan
Grimm
The ammo system feels like a way to get better "spells" and increase their damage. IE Fireball 1 vs Fireball 2. But the eternal spell is just nice. Make it so the Alch can craft eternal spells and then unlock higher tier eternal spells later for better scaling. The eternal part feels good. The "oh damn im all out of spell arrows", does not.
9
27 Jan
Daedelise
I like the spells idea and having the eternal versions, but i do agree it doesn't make sense if you have a mana system in place already. I do not like the idea of bag space being used for them. I think having a character slot or "memory bank" would be more akin to that. I also like the idea of a quiver for arrows.
6
27 Jan
Sure2outdo
This is done already they are rare finds but once found you can craft them as well.
3
29 Jan
James
The low level spell charges are consumable, but you can craft permanent ones around lvl 20. This is already in the game.
4
29 Jan
ClanPsi
*staves, not staffs. Just like wolves are wolves and not wolfs.
1
31 Jan
Paul Kocherhans
something to consider, is bows also use both an ammo, and a resource (stamina) so its not unbalanced to have mages spend a consumable, and a resource (mana) that said, I think the biggest problem mages have is inventory, as an archer, you may carry a couple types of arrows, but generally no more then 2, as a mage, you will regularly carry around 4 spells nearly minimum, but often more (level 1 and 2 fireballs, heal, chain heal etc..)

perhaps having spell ammo take up a different inventory? we have slots for armor, maybe having slots for spells separate from regular inventory

it could maybe even be tied to the staff, so a staff carries up to (x) number of spells, could even have people swapping between staves to optimise different spell sets.
3
31 Jan
Lyzrac
Right now, it's more like a cost to use a spell you haven't gotten the eternal version of, yet. The few spells without eternal versions do get a bit annoying though. The cost of crafting some spell charges really needs to come down, too though. There also needs to be a way to level up eternal spells as we progress.
1
01 Feb
Celestial
My bad Sorry for staffs and not Staves* cant seem to change it.
After grinding the game pretty much for a week I've noticed the Staves are good, however with limitations. Often found myself running around simply with a wand instead. Having spells as skills in the tree IMO would allow the magic user to use it when they feel instead of being restricted by a quantity. I understand some spells are eternal, however these are late game spells, and you probably already made hundreds of spells by that time or gave up trying and moving towards a wand instead. Grinding the resources seems too much for only 20 spells of Fireball 1 or anything for that matter. Additionally Mana doesnt really replenish fast enough it seems, so the quantity of the spells sometimes doesn't matter.

Early game these issues are bothersome. Late game, the creation of spells becomes too grindy, and too much of a boring task running around gathering resources that are difficult to find just to craft x20 fireballs.
1
01 Feb
Jihaku
I ultimately came to like the spell charges simply because they support spell diversity.
I like having options not only between fire ball I & II but also the eternal because I am picking between casting time, resource usage and damage, and that makes me feel reminiscent of a Mage from DnD, where I have to care about my spell slots. I'll admit, it would be nice to have cantrips - which could be like eternals but weaker and faster to use, and also have a dedicated inventory space for spell storage instead of my bag.

Other than that, more spells - but I think the ammunition should stay because it makes staff only play possible. without it, casting eternals simply takes too long. ( naturally with the %50 casting speed perk on as well )
1
05 Feb
Valaris
You can already accomplish this with eternal spells. Talk to anyone who uses a ranged build and they'll tell you that magic is already 10x more overpowered than bows, and they spend way more resources crafting ammunition than you do once you get your eternal spells at endgame.

5 gunpowder (which takes more nitrate than you get gunpowder, and requires you to craft alchemical base -- another expensive mid-game resource) and flint arrows to make 25 explosive arrows. All to be able to still do a fraction of the damage you can do at level 25 with a staff.

My buddy's 2 shotting bosses with fireballs doing over 1,000 damage per fireball; maybe let's rework damage on the magic class before we worry about giving them baseline infinite ammo.
05 Feb
Witchkissed
I would love to see an eternal lightning spell. Also, I feel with just Ice and fire in the begining, there is little variety. Why have lightning so late game? Or poison/acid? Why not have low level versions of all spells and then tier sytem of lv 2 and 3 versions after damage is tweaked of course? As a mage I dont want to resort to just wand fighting or possibly a sword. I want to sling spells even if they are stupid weak at first. Wands are cool but what makes a mage awesome is being able to cast spells.
05 Feb
GoliathFox
It seems like this would be better as an element on the Staff or even in the skill tree. Magic should drain mana, not ammo.
1
06 Feb
Irinicus
This option would actually give purpose to a dedicated healer. Currently, making healing spells tied in to the staff seems very cumbersome and quite dangerous for a healer. Most of the time, they can only give a heal safely outside of battle.
08 Feb
BackFromTheAsh
since we can get infinite versions of the spells i dont mind the more powerfull versions being ammo based. i just wish they would heavily nerf how much mana it takes to cast a spall
1
10 Feb
Reha
Both can be done. Make spell ammunitions are always the base level, but finding/crafting spell books/scrolls unlocks the ability to upgrade your spells. You can play a "staff wielding fighter" to use some ranged option or be a full mage to wreak havoc.
19 Feb
just another player
What if... the initial magic hit could damage yourself/teammates? (ignoring the aura damage skills)
That would blance it out too, "Oh I just shot a fireball point blank and blew my own face off" :D
20 Feb
Billy
Agreed this would make the mage builds feel a LOT better
09 Mar
Three Seagrass
I actually like the current system.
10 Mar
Jonathan
Make spells discoverable to use like quests to unlock them and maybe have the staffs have spell slots for multiple spells to be used. Like you find a staff with 4 slots you could put known spells in the slot and scroll to select which spell you want to use. Like your first spells could be 1st slot(Fire ball), 2nd (Lightning), 3rd ( Healing) etc., and you could press a button and scroll wheel to change the spell as you fight instead of them holding only one spell at a time.
15 Mar
GreenEyes
Agree, this would make me more interested in using a staph. I haven't tried one because it's easier to just ignore it and delete the found ammunition rather than trying to sort and store it.
18 Mar
Vulchon
Sorry, have limited time so didn't read all comments but, keep staffs/wands and add spell casting for wizards/mages/witches/etc. use mana and stanima to cast maybe, mana atleast obviously. Have staffs be dedicated like wands but make the durability longer or make more powerfull (both?). NPC mage trainer, heck NPC Trainers? all genereal classes.
17 Apr
superpebble
as a cooperative game, I find that gifting the magic items I find to my buddy who is the group mage, keeps him mostly well stocked with plenty of instances where at the last minute he has run out of spells he can cast and its a frantic struggle for survival. a lot of gamers dont understand that if everyone is the mage, they will all be fighting over the same resources. build a team that focuses on different skill sets and you will see how well this game is planned out.
29 Apr
Kagemiko
A lot of roll playing games require you as a caster to get components to be able to cast spells, I see nothing wrong with the way it is set up now. To me you guys are making it more like WOW and less like Enshrouded by doing this.